360 session: Piyush Mishra. Dealing with data loss and the importance of creative optimization

360 session: Alia Lassal, Wooga - using date for better creatives

2022 has officially begun and we’re off with a flying start! Welcome to the first 360 expert session of the new year. Join Replai’s Richard Bond, and Piyush Mishra, Lead - Growth Marketing at Product Madness, for a deep dive into all things creative optimization, user acquisition and mobile marketing. Piyush shares his insights and predictions for 2022, discusses dealing with signal loss, and the increasing importance creatives play in any growth marketeers toolbelt.

We hope you enjoyed the 360 Expert Interview as much as we did! We hope to see you next week for part 2 of this interview.

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Video Transcript

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Richard: This is an interview with  Mishra from product madness. You really caught my attention when we were doing a presentation at the IBM conference with some really bold predictions about 2022 and what that means for performance marketing. Piyush absolute crushing it at product madness as well. So many things to talk about in terms of UA strategy and how we can approach things with all the signal loss going on right now and, and learn from that to adapt in 2022, as he runs his own incredible series of content as well, called level up, which is a partnership with AppsFlyer. Okay. So hello and welcome. Very, very lucky to be joined by Piyush Mishra from product madness, would you like to introduce yourself?

Piyush: Nice to meet you. First, Richard is always fun to talk to a person who is very much in, in the creative, because it's something that's a common way that we sort of share our bond over. But anyway, I'm Piyush, I'm a groth lead at product madness. I've had experience across industry for the past six plus years. I'd say almost seven years now, which makes me a little bit old, but it's, it is what it is. And yeah, I've been sort of leading the whole  project in Germany for the past one year.

Richard: We met at the IBM conference, really interested in the talk that you made and a few things that you wanted to focus on, and you're quite right. Something very, very common to both. Our hearts obviously is creative. One of the things that you actually said that I really want to just kick off. I mean, there's two things I want to cover, but this probably the main one, and you mentioned a little bit about creative optimization, you know, where he's going to be even more important in your opinion, in 2022, everyone has been saying it's been the most important thing for ages. Yeah. But you said it was going to be more, so could you explain a little bit more why you said that?

Piyush: Definitely. I mean, look at it all does back to what kind of changes we are going to let let's look at it. Retrospectively what happened in 2021 and what happened in 2020, like the whole thing that started with apple, making such a big announcement, right? What happened was as a UA  manager on the IOS side specifically, because we can't talk about Android. It's more speculation as of now, but on the iOS side, for example, what happened with those? There was a loss of signals. There was a loss of data that you were receiving. Our entire perception is on the us side is completely at a user level. We buy users, we don't buy a group of users. We don't buy a segment of users. We buy individually users. We broke across the domain because the user of our data was very, very accurate.

Richard: It was good at predicting the user's going to convert in the long run there that that sort of a thing has been gone because of the changes that apple introduced and because of changes that Facebook and other partners also introducing right now. Right? I mean, I see that as a trend that we are going to move into a world where it's going to be mostly aggregated data privacy focused, and, you know, the changes that even Google might bring in going forward, but at a broader level, that was the main thing that there was a loss of signal. And so what happened was what are the levers levers that you're left with at a, at a broader level, we can do what we call a smart, contextual targeting, which is, you know, the era that I grew up in, which is when we used to do contextual targeting, we used to target cities or S and carrier, and, you know, all those states that we can get our data to.

Piyush: And, you know, we used to be smarter about this, but then came the user level data revolution, I'll say, especially Facebook leading the charge. And then, you know, everybody's sort of looking started looking at still. Yeah. I mean, they have the intelligence. Why would it be fool to actually target contextually when the user level data is available? Now that feels again gone, and we're moving into a world where, you know, we are not going to get usable data anymore, especially on the iOS side. And, you know, we have to sort of start thinking of what are the liver's optimizations that are available now as a year manager, I see creative, which should have been the biggest focus for you and manager has. It was no longer there because of all the intelligence that Facebook and other sort of machinery got built, because we were already very, very okay with the kind of data we are getting with the kind of users we are getting, because we had data at a user level. So going forward, I believe that creative will become the king. When I say creative, I think of it in a larger spectrum. And Richard, I have a habit of speaking and answering and the answers

So what happens is that when I've been at being creative, I mean, the journey from a user standpoint, look where we also make a mistake is under the assumption that users have changed. Users have not changed. The measurement has changed, you know, the way we track the campaign level, the user level data that has changed, but we choose a response to an ad will still be there. Yes, it's not going to be as personalized as before, but you can still be smarter about it in terms of contextual targeting. So the user behavior has remained the same. Think of it in this way. If you provide, if you're targeting, let's say the social casino space and you know that some user also play other casino apps and you know, that those audiences could potentially be a user for you, right?

So you target that particular inventory, right? That's the targeting aspect. The next aspect aspect comes as in the form of creative, which is where you say that what kind of creative actually speaks to the mindset of the user. So what actually being another social casino app. So you become smarter about what kind of creative you're actually running to those users. We're actually already playing another game, similar to your game, right? And the third aspect is, did the landing page, like do the landing page in the form of play store or in the form of landing page, wherever you are, whatever you're comfortable using, what kind of additional information you're providing to the user? Because from a user journey, these are three things. Am I being served an ad? That makes sense to me, am I being served the right creative so that I can get more information about it?

Am I being taken to the right landing page? Because for example, if your creative is saying something else and your landing page is saying something completely different, the app store, you know, the data or whatever, then the call you the journey is broken in between. Right? So when I say credit, I talk about the whole user journey from targeting to the landing page. And from a user standpoint, if the user's going to convert, and that's what I mean, that going forward this journey with the company important you and manage this much sort of ag that intelligence with it. And I also believe there could be potential evolution of creative, a new creative format. I could be wrong. I'll hate to be wrong, but I could be wrong in it. So they could be different formats that are sort of coming in my general. Like for example, playbooks could become big, you know, like labels actually reflect that part of your game that they use are going to play. Right. It's literally a part of the game. So I believe from a gaming standpoint that could also become big, but you know, this is what I meant at a broader level.

Richard: I find this super interesting. Right. And there's a lot of things that you mentioned there that I kind of want to pull on, but I also want to be specific let's so let's see if we can at least summarize what you're talking about. Okay. You're saying in response to the complete lack of control and the signal loss, right. Refocus and double down on the stuff that you can control and then really focus on like avoiding essentially cognitive dissonance. Right. Making sure that that whole user flow is very, very enjoyable and still speaks to them at every opportunity. Yeah. Okay. So let's leave for one second. Let's leave the potential argument about the role of marketing versus the role of product to side and talk about when people are looking at things like before that were super important to them, ROAS day seven and beyond, you know, too robust day, 200 or whatever that you could be looking at to a certain degree. Well, what about people who really rely on those signals that have now been lost those much, much lower funnel metrics? What kind of things are they able to do at this point?

Piyush: This is where, you know, this is why I keep on syndicated is going to be big because, and I'm keeping this argument to iOS for now, because we don't know how entered it's going to shape up. When iOS specifically lower funding metrics are sort of a thing of past. If people have already switched to scan, I'm assuming right now, until you, obviously you can have conversion data up to 63 days, but in reality, in attractiveness, has people are going to have it to 24 or 48 hours. Right? So now I think the wall we're going to move in for, for actually giving advertisers, we're actually leading on relying on low funnel metric. I think that would be on the basis of prediction. What kind of data you can collect in the first 24 hours being sparked from out your conversion value, collecting those data points, and then predicting that in the long run, this user can potentially provide you , you know, $7, $10, whatever, whatever that, you know, 10%, 10%, whatever the number is.

So that's what I mean by saying that, you know, for, for a higher, low funnel metric based advertiser, you prediction would become very big, but traditionally, the basis of conversion value for you to get those conversion. Well, you have to be smarter about how you will apply in the conversion by the schema. And you have to be smarter about the way you're applying it as well, because, you know, you can extend for, until you can extend it to six 60 days, but then you're relying on of users. We're actually opening there for every single day was is even if let's say you only care about you as we're coming back to the app, every single day, you can extend it to 48 hours. But then, you know, the revenue that you're going to get are only for the users or opening the app on both the days, right. And not one day. So you have to be smarter about this and prediction in the long run is something that I believe could help with those in those advertisers who are sort of relying on your offering metrics. Great.